Name: Why Charlie Kirk’s Approach Matters Now More Than Ever | Pastor Jackson Lahmeyer
Uploaded: 2025-11-04T17:33:19.000Z
Description: What happens when a nation loses one of its most influential voices—and what can we learn from the legacy he leaves behind?

Jan Jekielek is a senior editor with The Epoch Times, host of the show “American Thought Leaders” and co-host of “FALLOUT” with Dr. Robert Malone and “Kash’s Corner” with Kash Patel. Jan’s career has spanned academia, international human rights work, and now for almost two decades, media. He has interviewed nearly a thousand thought leaders on camera, and specializes in long-form discussions challenging the grand narratives of our time. He’s also an award-winning documentary filmmaker, producing “The Unseen Crisis: Vaccine Stories You Were Never Told,” “DeSantis: Florida vs. Lockdowns,” and “Finding Manny.”

Jan Jekielek

NTD Plus

Shows

At a time when our nation is becoming increasingly polarized, media often ignore viewpoints and stories that are worthy of attention. American Thought Leaders, hosted by The Epoch Times Senior Editor Jan Jekielek and his reporting team, features in-depth discussions with important thought leaders on key issues facing America—and Canada, the world—today.

American Thought Leaders

What the End of the Orban Era Means for Hungary and Its Constitution | Marton Sulyok

One Key Fact About America’s Founding That Isn’t Taught Anymore | Eric Metaxas

Is Canada Becoming the CCP’s Backdoor into America? | Former Canadian Intel Analyst Scott McGregor

Bringing you the latest videos, livestreams, and premieres.

Epoch Video

'Killed to Order' LIVE Q&A with New York Times Bestselling Author and Epoch Times Senior Editor Jan Jekielek

Gordon Chang Breaks Down Trump-Xi Summit and What’s Next

How Cartels Force Children Into Prostitution, Drug Dealing and Even Killing | Rosi Orozco

The Charter School Principal Turning Children Toward Plato, Virtue, and the Eternal | Caylan Ford

The CCP’s Greatest Insecurity—and America’s Greatest Weapon | Sam Brownback

Homeopathy Cured Her Disease, Now She’s Fighting for More Access | Paola Brown

Mollie Hemingway: The Untold Story of How One Man ‘Reshaped the Supreme Court’

The Associated Press is an American not-for-profit news agency headquartered in New York City. 

The Associated Press

News

US News

State News

California

More Than 17,000 Under Evacuation Orders as Southern California Wildfire Threatens Homes

Rudy Blalock is a Southern California-based daily news reporter for NTD. Originally from Michigan, he moved to California in 2017 and the sunshine and ocean have kept him here since. In his free time, he may be found underwater scuba diving, on top of a mountain hiking or snowboarding, or at home meditating—which helps fuel his active lifestyle.

Rudy Blalock

40,000 Ordered to Evacuate as Chemical Tank Leaks, Threatens Explosion in California

Video of US Fighter Jet Shooting Down UFO Over Lake Huron Emerges in New Pentagon Files

Ryan Morgan is a reporter for The Epoch Times focusing on military and foreign affairs. He was previously a news writer for NTD. 


Ryan Morgan

Mari Otsu is NTD's White House correspondent based in Washington. 

Mari Otsu

World News

Middle East

Iran

3 US Warships Fend Off Iranian Attacks, Trump Says Ceasefire Still Holds

Mary Man is a writer for NTD. She has traveled around the world covering China, international news, and arts and culture.

Mary Man

Daniel Monaghan is a reporter for NTD News covering culture, social issues, and education. He holds a BA in Political Science and Government.

Daniel Monaghan

China News

Epoch Times Obtains Over 2,000 Unseen Tiananmen Square Photos on 37th Anniversary of the June 4th Massacre

NTD Newsroom comprises teams of reporters, editors, and producers assigned to cover breaking news and other stories.


NTD Newsroom

News you can trust from the U.S. and around the world. Critical information and insight. We cover the stories that others don’t. NTD News Today airs Monday–Friday at 11 a.m. ET.

NTD News Today

US Government Sues Chick-fil-A Over Religious Rights

Sports News

Kyle Busch, Two-Time NASCAR Champion, Dies at 41

Haika Mrema

Medical Plane Crash in New Mexico Mountains Kills 4, Sparks Wildfire

California Mayor Resigns, Will Plead Guilty to Acting as Chinese Agent

Reuters is a news agency owned by Thomson Reuters. It employs around 2,500 journalists and 600 photojournalists in about 200 locations worldwide writing in 16 languages.

Reuters

Trump Calls Iran's Response to Latest US Ceasefire Proposal 'Totally Unacceptable'

Why a Taiwan Invasion Would Trigger Trillions in Global Losses | Amb. Alexander Yui

Over 1,000 CCP-Linked Groups in America: Exposing United Front Operations | Peter Mattis

Why 28- and 29-Year-Olds Are Disappearing From China’s Uyghur Concentration Camps | Ethan Gutmann

Texas AG Ken Paxton Breaks Down Wave of Lawsuits Targeting CCP Surveillance

The Many Hidden Fronts of CCP Unrestricted Warfare | Casey Fleming

Has Xi Jinping Unified His Own Enemies? | Robert Suettinger

How the CCP Dehumanizes Christians in China | Pastor Bob Fu

The Failures of Multiculturalism in the United Kingdom | Peter McIlvenna

From AI Girlfriends to Brain Implants, How the AI Revolution Is Radically Reshaping Our World | Wynton Hall

Most Americans Agree: You Can’t Change Your Sex | Jonathan Butcher

The Woke Movement Has Peaked. What’s Next? | Andrew Doyle

Rob Schneider: Here’s What’s Wrong With Our Culture Today

Why These 9 Institutions Must Be Reformed Post-COVID | Jeffrey Tucker

Canning, Compost, and Chickens: How to Stop Relying on Others for Food | Special Episode

Charles Murray: I Thought Religion Was Irrelevant to Me. I Was Wrong.

Robert Kiyosaki: Why America’s Middle Class Keeps Getting Poorer

The CCP’s Gloves Are Off in Trade War—What’s Next? | Lee Smith

How Tariffs Once Paid America’s Bills–And Why They Could Again | John Gardner

Jeffrey Tucker: Everything You Need to Know About the Fed

Impact of Trump’s Trade, Tax, Energy Policies | Mark Skousen

How Clay Clark Helped Small Businesses Survive—and Thrive—During the Pandemic and Beyond

Eric Trump: How America Can Outcompete China in Manufacturing

EJ Antoni Decodes the Trump Economy and the ‘Big, Beautiful Bill’ Controversy

Here’s What Darwinian Evolution Can’t Explain About the Origins of Species | Stephen Meyer

How ‘Brain Rot’ and the Escapist Virtual World Are Harming Our Youth | Adnan Alkhalili

Treating the Root, Not Just the Symptoms: The Power of Integrative Medicine | Dr. Daniel Monti

Exclusive: Dr. Jay Bhattacharya on How the NIH Is Rethinking Autism, DEI, China Ties, and Gain-of-Function

The False Promise of Antidepressants | Dr. Joanna Moncrieff

Why Steak Is at the Top of the New Food Pyramid | Dr. Shawn Baker

A New Approach to Alzheimer’s? | Lou Reese

Dr. Mehmet Oz: Up to $4 Billion in Health Care Fraud in California

The Evidence of Harm: What the Data Really Show About Pediatric Transgender Procedures | Leor Sapir

An Exclusive, Inside Look at Shen Yun Performing Arts | Special Episode

Epoch Cinema

Cinema

A Little Sketchy TV

Breast Milk, McDonald’s, & Garbage | A Little Sketchy

3-Headed Hydra, NSA, & Cringe | A Little Sketchy

Special

Jubilee Celebrations, Valentines Day, & Selling to China | A Little Sketchy

Freedom Convoy, Ukraine, & Winter Olympics | A Little Sketchy TV

Inside ‘Trump 2.0’ and the Media’s Role in Political Violence | Sean Spicer

He Ran the World’s Biggest Payment Processor; Now He’s Taking on Social Security | Frank Bisignano

Devin Nunes on Ending the Politicization of America’s Intelligence Agencies

Exclusive: Inside SBA’s Crack Down on Loan Fraud Nationwide | Administrator Kelly Loeffler

Exclusive: Kash Patel Talks China Fentanyl, Violent Networks, ‘Burn Bags,’ and More

Andy Ngo: I Was Nearly Killed by Antifa. This is What I Learned.

Eric Trump Opens Up About How Relentless Attacks Impacted Him and His Family

Why Charlie Kirk’s Approach Matters Now More Than Ever | Pastor Jackson Lahmeyer

The Battle Over Alligator Alcatraz, the US Census, and CCP Surveillance | Florida AG James Uthmeier

[RUSH TRANSCRIPT BELOW] What happens when a nation loses one of its most influential voices—and what can we learn from the legacy he leaves behind?

What is the role of faith in shaping America’s future, and how should we move forward?

In this episode, I sit down with pastor Jackson Lahmeyer to reflect on the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the work of the Trump administration to strengthen religious liberty in America.

“We have a lot to learn from Charlie’s methodology,” Lahmeyer said. “Charlie would reach you in your mind, but also he’d reach you in your heart, because Charlie cared about people.”

“The person was not the enemy. The idea might have been the enemy, but the person was not the enemy. … That’s why Charlie was taken out, because he was so good at reasoning with people,” he said.

“It’s the model that we need to adopt moving forward if we’re going to bring healing and restoration to the country,” he added.

Lahmeyer is the author of “Chasing After the Wind: Why Nobody Is Catching What Everybody Is Chasing.”

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of NTD.

RUSH TRANSCRIPT
Jan Jekielek:

Pastor Jackson Lahmeyer, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Pastor Jackson Lahmeyer:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor.

Mr. Jekielek:
Our plan was to speak about how faith in America has been under attack and what this administration is doing to try to deal with that. And then Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Tell me what you’re thinking.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
And it’s tough because Charlie was a friend of mine. And it’s one of those things, you know, it can happen. You don’t think it ever will happen. But then it did happen. And America lost a legend. The body of Christ lost an ambassador to an entire generation. I called him America’s youth pastor. And a wife lost a husband, two kids lost their father, and many of us lost a friend.

But at the same time I recognize that Charlie Kirk gained his eternal reward and he heard the words that I want to hear, well done my good and faithful servant. And Charlie’s more alive today than you and I are right here. And so we rejoice with him, but obviously mourn for his family,
the Turning Point USA family.

And then we have to ask the question, how now shall we live in the aftermath of what just took place? Because it’s awful, not just the assassination, but the response by so many fellow Americans who are celebrating his death, who are mocking his death. And so it goes to show you that our culture is in desperate need of healing and restoration. And this is what you could call faith being under fire. This is faith under attack.

Charlie Kirk was so vocal about his faith and he was so effective. You know, people say he was full of hate speech, right? I don’t think so. I think they just hated his speech because he was so good at what he did. He would allow people to express their opinions and then he would give an argument that was in a gentle manner but was in a convincing manner. And so we lost the legend, but I believe many more voices will begin to speak up in the aftermath of this.

Mr. Jekielek:
I’d interviewed him a number of times. We were friendly. I didn’t know him very well. But one thing that I found to be maybe not unique, but he was, you know, I guess entirely unusual in this, that he was transparently not viewing the people that he was talking to who, some of whom, you know, were really against him in quite extreme ways, he didn’t really view them as his enemy. I note that because that’s how I try to treat people in a similar vein. But it’s hard, I mean, if you want to speak to that at all.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
I think that’s why Charlie was so effective. Charlie would reach you in your mind, but also he’d reach you in your heart, because Charlie cared about people. It wasn’t that the person was the enemy. The idea might have been the enemy, but the person was not the enemy. And so that resonated with people because here was a person that thought they understood. He doesn’t hate me. He actually cares about me. He’s listening to me. He just disagrees with the ideas that I have.

So I think if more of us had that approach that the enemy is not the person the enemy may be an idea that the person holds to but the person is not the enemy and it is the only way to probably convince people of your argument. If you come across hateful and mean and spiteful, you may have the perfect argument, but no one’s going to receive it because of the tone and the measure and the demeanor that it was spoken. And so I think we have a lot to learn from Charlie’s methodology, which is why I believe he was so effective.

Mr. Jekielek:
Tell me a little bit more about how you knew him.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
We were babies, it looks like, when I look back at this picture. The first time we met, we were on the Reawaken America Tour. This was many years ago. And we were both young. You know, I’m only two years older than Charlie. And so we just kind of connected over that. We were both young. Everyone was much older. And I was just getting my feet wet into the political world.

And I was running for the United States Senate in Oklahoma, and I was running against an incumbent U.S. Senator. And so there was a lot of pressure on President Trump to endorse the sitting U.S. Senator in Oklahoma, because he’s a sitting U.S. Senator, and I’m a 29-year-old kid running against him. And Charlie Kirk was the guy that made the pitch to President Trump not to endorse the sitting U.S. Senator, but to give me a shot in the race.

So Charlie actually introduced me to the Trump family. That’s what opened the door to lead pastors for Trump. And so I think back, you know, Charlie really opened a door for me that I would have never been able to open for myself. So I owe Charlie Kirk quite a bit, because without his taking a gamble and a risk on me, introducing me to the president, to his family, I wouldn’t have led Pastors for Trump, which was like one of the greatest honors of my life.

Mr. Jekielek:
I want to ask you more about that and how that actually works. But is there some particular, I don’t know, moment that you remember in your interaction or something that kind of personifies him for you?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Oh, that’s easy. The thing that Charlie Kirk was most proud of was not Turning Point USA, although he was proud of it. And it was an incredible machine and still is an incredible machine. He was by far most proud that he had a wife that he loved and that he had two children that he adored. That was Charlie’s entire world.

He was living out his faith. He was living out what he was preaching to, you know, his message was pretty simple to the young men. Get married, have kids, love God, love your country. It was a very simple message. And Charlie was living it out. And so that’s the thing. He was a genuinely good person. And to see people mock and ridicule him in his death is just so heartbreaking because none of them actually knew Charlie Kirk? You know, there’s been all sorts of reactions that I’ve followed.

Mr. Jekielek:
You know, some of it has been this, you know, kind of an increase in interest in Christianity. I’ve seen all sorts of social media posts saying, you know, I’m picking up my first Bible, you know, I’m inspired and things like that. Then, of course, there’s the type of reactions that you described. Then there’s also another category of reactions and this is something that Tulsi Gabbard spoke about at this DC vigil a few days ago where someone said to her, and this just represents a significant number of people that even I’ve talked to, it’s like Charlie’s approach failed. There’s no way to talk with these people. I don’t think talking works anymore. Maybe we need to take some extreme measures. I mean, how do you react to this? I’ve got a whole thought set that I just offered here.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
I would say talking obviously works. That’s why Charlie was taken out, because he was so good at reasoning with people and talking with people, and he was so effective. was able to dismantle ideas and arguments in a way without being violent, without being mean or spiteful, anything like that. And so, no, Charlie Kirk’s approach did not fail. It was extremely successful. And it’s the model that we need to adopt moving forward if we’re going to bring healing and restoration to the country. It’s the only way.

And to your point, though, there’s the Charlie Kirk effect. Churches were jam-packed this previous Sunday. My church was standing room only. It was filled 20 minutes before service. We had a line of people trying to get into the auditorium. Bible sales among first-time Bible buyers is at an all-time high. So these are people who have never owned a Bible. They’re going and buying Bibles. So there’s the Charlie Kirk effect. His voice is more powerful in his death than what it was when he was going from campus to campus. And so that’s the good side.

The bad side is obviously the social media silos, because the algorithms know what keeps you engaged is rage, anger, and that’s what keeps you scrolling through TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, whatever it is that you’re going through. And so it’s feeding and poisoning our minds, especially children, especially children when they’re seeing violence, rage, hatred. It’s becoming a part of who they are. And so, you know, parents are going to have to really monitor what their kids are viewing through social media.

Mr. Jekielek:
FBI Director Kash Patel actually spoke to this as being one of the biggest challenges of people beginning to become radicalized in these silos, just in these couple sets of very active hearings, let’s say. We call that an intense fellowship. Now, what I’m hearing you saying about Charlie Kirk is, you know, that he provided a kind of a model for how to, I don’t know, help America get back to its roots or get some kind of unity.

I don’t know, that word is a little bit fraught for me because, you know, there’s like the Maoist way of unity, right? Which is to eliminate the people that don’t have different views, right? This is that we’re talking about a different kind of…the good kind. The different kind of unity where we, you know, realize that we’re not each other’s enemies, even though we have very different viewpoints.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Unity can be a bad word. Unity can be a good word. And we do have to have a sense of unity. Now, unity doesn’t mean conformity, meaning that in order for you and I to be united together, you have to conform to me or I have to conform to you. I think we have to be able to recognize that we are free agents, meaning we have the ability to form our own thoughts, opinions.

And the beautiful thing about the freedom of speech is it gives you the right to be wrong. You can say things that you believe and it can be wrong, but you have the right to say that thing. That’s the beauty of America. And so Charlie’s method of reaching across, I mean, he’s going into hostile territory on these college campuses of people that were not big fans of him, that would do anything to prove him wrong in a debate or an argument.

I think back to watching Charlie at Oxford, just the way that he was, you know, here you have a non-college educated individual schooling the most educated people at Oxford. And so his method, though, was so good. And if I think if we could adopt that into the way that we have conversations with people who differ from us politically, religiously, whatever it may be, I think the intensity would come down a few notches to where it is, okay, you’re not my enemy. I may not ever agree with you, and you may not ever agree with me, but we are both Americans, and we want what’s best for the United States of America.

Mr. Jekielek:
So I’ve voiced this kind of an idea, and I’ve had a guest on, Professor Robert George, talking about, let’s say, this realm of ideas. One of the common responses that I’ve seen, I look at how people respond, was just something to the tune of, yes, go along, get along. That clearly doesn’t work. What about justice?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Oh, yes. Justice is for the government to issue, not for individuals. Vigilante justice is not real justice. And so the proper role of government is to punish wrongdoers and to protect good citizens. Unfortunately, that hasn’t been necessarily the case recently in the U.S. government, but we’re getting there with people like Kash Patel, who’s in the Department of Justice.
So justice is absolutely necessary. Justice is something all of us long for when an evil is done. But, you know, I kind of lean on a Bible verse which says, seek justice, love mercy, and walk humbly before the Lord. And I think that’s the approach all of us have to lean upon.

Mr. Jekielek:
And that’s one of the big challenges, right? I feel like so many of the things that we took for granted, like what you said, right? That when laws are broken, that will be punished, right? And when people are good citizens and are trying to affect positive change or something like that, that won’t be punished. We’ve kind of reversed it, haven’t we?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
We’ve criminalized the good people and we’ve let the criminals go. It’s been an inverse of what justice should be.

Mr. Jekielek:
Or at least a road down that path. And I think that’s made a lot of us very cynical and in some ways, rightfully so. But maybe being cynical is never right. But how do we deal with this kind of mess? It’s a kind of information chaos, and we don’t trust our institutions, right? You can see this. It doesn’t even matter who’s in office. The level of trust is way down, and again, justified. How do you deal with this? Presumably you talk with your congregation, your family about all these sorts of things often, right?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
It’s difficult because I don’t trust many of the institutions that, you know, we should be able to trust. You should be able to trust the Department of Justice or you should be able to trust, you know, churches and schools and just the whole thing, right? But there’s been so much corruption in our country and so much misinformation that, you know, what I tell my church is you have to know the truth so well that you immediately pick up when something is not the truth.

So if we know our Bibles as well as we ought to, we’ll be able to know when there’s a false teaching. It’s not that we go and study false teaching. We study the truth so well that whenever a false teaching appears, we instantly know that it doesn’t line up. We need good people to step up and start engaging politically.

I know it’s tough because politics is nasty. It’s dirty and good people, I don’t want anything to do with that. But we’ve got to start filling in these lower roles. We always focus on the presidency, which is vital. But we need to fill in school boards, city councils, mayoral offices with good people because local government has a major impact on our lives and you know local action produces a national impact and so I would encourage people to really consider you know yes these institutions have been corrupted and taken advantage of.

So we need good people to get into these institutions so trust can be built. Because we can trust people that are good, that are decent, and that are honest. That’s really what we need right now is a changing of the guard. Those who have been in positions that have caused us to distrust these institutions need to be removed via elections. This is the process of our system via elections, and replaced with people that we can trust.

Mr. Jekielek:
You know, and this really rings true to me. Few people, let’s say, that are in significant roles today, I was one of the people that came to me and said, hey, do you think I should, you know, run? Or do you think I should, you know, go for this office? Or it’s going to be a nightmare. I mean, OK, I’m being a little bit glib here. And I said, you know, yes, it’s terrible. And I don’t think, I don’t see myself as ever doing anything like this. But we absolutely need good, moral, decent people. And I know you are one. So I’m for it.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
I’ll tell you something. Benjamin Franklin was asked, what form of government did you give us? And he responded, a republic, if you can keep it. And our founding fathers understood something. Our form of
government only works if you have, according to their words, a just and moral people. So you have to have a just and moral people for this form of government to work. And when you don’t have a just and moral people, all of a sudden you have what we have. We don’t trust any institution.

And so people have to get back to our roots of what made America great in the first place. If we get back to our roots, more people will run. My phrase when I was really out on the campaign trail was, if we want to make America great again, we have to make America godly again. People that are pursuing their relationship with God, people that know that there is a standard that God himself has put out for how humans are to behave. There’s a natural law that most people recognize.

And so to me, you know, I’m obviously biased in this, that’s the answer I see as people coming back to knowing God and living for God will produce a change in the culture. I’m a firm believer. All of us are capable of much greater than what we believe we can achieve, but all of us are also capable of much worse than what we think we would ever do. And so we got to guard our hearts, guard our minds.

That’s why I bring up the social media thing consistently because if you’re feeding yourself this rage, this anger, this hatred, you’re going to become rageful, you’re going to become hateful, and you’re going to become very angry. And sometimes people act on those things, and we see the devastation because of that. And so we’ve got to be just over the top, on guard of what we see and what we hear and what our hearts begin to think.

Mr. Jekielek:
I find myself quoting Solzhenitsyn often lately, especially this line, that the line between good and evil cuts through every human heart, exactly what you were speaking to here. I don’t know if this is whose line
this is, maybe it’s mine, but we are what we consume. And that’s certainly what I’ve learned over the years, and I, you know, you have to face that. And I think it’s of profound import, what you just said, actually.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
They say it in physical training, you are what you eat.

Mr. Jekielek:
I was thinking that, too, you know, and this is coming out in the HHS-oriented policies, trying to deal with chronic illness, getting rid of dyes, and all sorts of things right out of diet.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
You are what you eat. And you are what you consume in your mind. You know, and your mind is so important to guard because there is an enemy out there that wants to corrupt your mind to do things that you should never ever do. And that’s why social media, it’s a great tool, but it’s also a great liability.

Mr. Jekielek:
I want to talk about Pastors for Trump. And so, because for some people, it might be, you know, it obviously is a very political organization, right? And some people might believe that there seems, that there’s some kind of, well, that that could create a problem for you, as a Christian or as a pastor or something like that. But explain to me how this works.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Pastors for Trump was a coalition of over 10,000 pastors from all 50 states. But it was primarily focused on the question, how do we mobilize the largest voting bloc in America, which is the evangelical voting bloc?
But evangelicals don’t really turn out to vote too well. So the thought was, what if we mobilized evangelical Christians by mobilizing their pastors. Because if a pastor gets up to his church and he says, go vote and vote your values, that’s a big significant push because people listen to
their pastors. And a pastor can represent 60 people or 6,000 people, depending on the size of the church.

And so that was the idea. Let’s mobilize pastors to help get President Trump back into the White House because there’s never been a more pro-Christian president in my lifetime at least. Someone who moved the needle on issues that matter to me as a Christian. And President Trump kept his word on those issues.

Mr. Jekielek:
What would be some examples?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Oh, my goodness. The biggest one by far is the Supreme Court justices that he appointed in his first term. He’s directly responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned and sent back to the states, which was something we all fought for, but I don’t know if we actually thought that would ever happen. And then it did happen.

President Trump struck the Abraham Accords during his first term, and then obviously he made the promise in his next term that he would start the faith office, that there would be a standalone office in the White House that is directed at protecting religious liberty and things like that. There’s never been a more pro-Christian president in my lifetime. And so we did it. It was successful. Evangelicals turned out in mass. Nine out of ten voted for Donald Trump, which was just astounding.

It helped get him back into the White House, and now he’s doing tremendous things, especially for people of faith. He’s launched the Anti-Christian Bias Task Force, which is looking into how the IRS, the DOJ, the ATF, and the FBI were targeting people of faith, specifically Christians. You know, the thing I love about President Trump is he doesn’t make a lot of promises on the campaign trail and then doesn’t follow through. When he made a promise on the campaign trail, he made a promise to us pastors.

He said there would be a faith office just for you guys. He followed through with that, and that was early on in the administration. And so, yeah, Pastors for Trump, it was a blast getting to travel the country. I was doing an interview once like this, and the journalist was very sincere. And she said, do you really believe that as flawed as Donald Trump is, that God can use somebody that flawed to accomplish his perfect will. My response was God only uses people as flawed as Donald Trump to accomplish his perfect will. And so God’s using Trump right now.

Mr. Jekielek:
You mentioned something earlier that somehow in his death, Charlie Kirk’s vision is somehow growing beyond quicker. And I mean, it’s hard.
You have no idea how things would have happened otherwise. People have described him as a once-in-a-generation or even several generations, talent, you know, likely future president and all these things.
But on the other hand, you’re saying that there’s this growing movement that has come out of this horrible tragedy.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
You can look at a few things. Since Charlie’s death, his social media following has increased by the millions, by the millions. Turning Point USA has received somewhere around 50,000 new requests for different chapters throughout the country. I mean, you just look at the spark, and now you have people that they’re going back and re-watching his clips, his messages. And people who were maybe not even that familiar with Charlie Kirk, they are very, very familiar now. And so it will inspire others. There will be others with unique gifts, talents, and abilities.

There will never be another Charlie Kirk. But there will be people, just like there was only one Rush Limbaugh. And there’s only one Rush Limbaugh and there’s only one Charlie. But other people with their gifts, their talents, their skills, they step up and Charlie’s life has inspired so many. So we will see many new leaders. Will there be another Charlie Kirk?

No, but there will be other leaders that will rise up because of this. And, you know, it makes all things work together for good because we love him and are called according to his purpose. And all things mean even the bad things. Somehow God is able to weave the good, the bad, the ugly into this beautiful story that we’re living out right now. And so I don’t know how it all will shake down. I have no idea. We’re seeing good fruit right now, but I believe God will make this work together for good.

Mr. Jekielek:
And so you mentioned at the beginning some of these reactions, kind of extreme negative reactions. One of the things that strikes me, I looked at some of the things that the people who are, you know, vitriolic, believe. I mean, I can’t even imagine why someone would, how or why someone would celebrate someone’s death like that. They must think that literally they’re like Hitler or something like that. That’s rhetoric that’s been used, of course. But there’s a lot of things that these people believe that just aren’t true, like about what he said, what he stood for. And how do we deal with that?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
That’s tough, right? Because a lot of people are basing their assumption of Charlie Kirk on a 10-second clip that was taken out of context or whatever the case may be and

Mr. Jekielek:
But also like the end people are pushing those things deliberately and this is what these social this is Going back to these social media silos you can do that and people might think this is just this is this is what we said,
and look, the evidence is right here. They just didn’t think to watch that there might be another or they don’t need to, because they’re friends and everyone else agrees.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Yes, that’s the tough thing, isn’t it? Because social media has presented a new challenge of misinformation, disinformation. Because once you view something and if you watch it, the algorithm begins to feed you what you’re staying on. So you’re going to get more. I think the best thing that we can do is what we’re doing right here.
We’re talking about who Charlie really was. We are talking about how important and significant he was and what he stood for—we fight disinformation and misinformation with true information. What did he believe? What was his impact? And if we do that, I believe it’ll help fight the misinformation that is out there about him

Mr. Jekielek:
And there’s always some people, like I think whenever these things happen, these situations, and there’s a vitriolic reaction, extreme reaction, and so forth. I mean, this has happened multiple times. I know, I mean, I even know you have received, you know, all sorts of vitriolic reactions just simply for playing the role that you’ve played. Actually, maybe just tell me about that briefly.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Oh, the death threats are consistent.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
No, it’s incredible. Our church has to have extreme security. We have people who will visit our church and they’ll say, I’ve never been to a church with this much law enforcement and security. Is that because something bad has happened here? And our response is, no, it’s because we have this much law enforcement and security that nothing bad has ever happened here.

But the hatred of what we do is so real because, you know, being a pastor and taking a step into the political arena of, you know, leading pastors for Trump kind of put a target on me a little bit. Our church got reported to the IRS thousands of times for violating the Johnson Amendment, which we never did. And we were never charged or prosecuted or anything like that.

Mr. Jekielek:
Just very quickly, for the benefit of the audience, what is the Johnson Amendment?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
The Johnson Amendment says that a non-profit 501(c)3 cannot contribute to a political campaign or candidate financially or endorse a political
candidate or political party. And so we’ve never done anything like that. The Johnson Amendment has never been utilized either. It’s a lot of bark, no bite, and President Trump wants to completely eradicate that as well.

The IRS recently came out and said that a church can endorse political candidates from behind the pulpit, and there will be no usage of the Johnson Amendment. So it’s a big victory. We just had a big victory. But, you know, when you stand up and you take a stand, not everybody likes it. Some people do, but not everybody does.

Mr. Jekielek:
So your position is that faith leaders should be able to make these endorsements.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Oh, absolutely. Just because I’m a pastor doesn’t mean I lose my right to engage in our political realm. So yes, and I believe there’s a responsibility. I’m a shepherd of the flock of the congregation that I pastor. A shepherd guides, a shepherd warns, and a shepherd advises. And so, yes, we should. And unfortunately, our politics has become very theological lately.

If you think about the issues that are hot topic political issues, marriage, gender, life, those are Bible issues. You can’t open up the first page of the Bible and not recognize marriage, life, and gender. So these have been theological issues that have been hijacked into the political realm. And so we have to talk about those things as pastors. Otherwise, we’re being dishonest to the scriptures that we say we love and we believe because our politicians have taken theological issues and they’ve politicized them.
And so, yes, I think faith leaders, not only should they, they have to.

Mr. Jekielek:
You know, Charlie Kirk was assassinated essentially doing a kind of ministry, right? As you point out, like he was America’s youth minister, I think you said. And you get death threats. How should people who play prominent roles in the Christian faith and put themselves in kind of the line of fire literally be treating this? How are you treating this?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
It became more real, because for five years, I have been getting death threats. And then to see it actually happen, it becomes much more like we upped our security, even more than what it already was. But that’s
our reality. And I want our people to be safe when they come to church, not have to worry about those types of things happening. And so with Charlie’s assassination, it became more real to me and my wife. And we’re just struggling, you know, walking, struggling through that together. But also recognizing, you know, when you do put yourself out there and when you take a stand and you are bold, you do develop enemies, unfortunately.

Mr. Jekielek:
So tell me more about this faith office. You know, you’re involved with both the White House Faith Office and also this Faith Advisory Council, which are separate institutions doing separate things. There’s some, frankly, a bit of confusion among people about exactly what the different institutions do. Can you give us a picture? Because you’re involved in both.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Yes. So there’s the National Faith Advisory Board. There’s the White House Faith Office. President Trump signed the executive order to establish that and it’s being led by Pastor Paula White who’s doing a phenomenal job and Jenny Corn there as well. And you know the faith office, what they’re doing specifically is they’re making sure that religious liberty is being protected because it has come under attack.

A lot of people don’t realize that but it’s from the IRS, FBI, DOJ, and ATF. And so they’re making sure that those agencies are not persecuting people of faith or that there’s just even cultural persecution of faith happening. They’re making sure that those things don’t happen like church attacks. Church attacks have risen over 700 percent since 2018. So that’s the role of the faith office.

Mr. Jekielek:
And is that specifically focused on Christians or broader?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
No. Religious liberty means all people of faith. However, in this country, there is a major spike of attacks upon people who are Christians. A major, major spike. But religious liberty extends to every person.

Mr. Jekielek:
So there would be more Christians involved. Obviously, there’s also a lot of Christians, the dominant faith as well, so it’s not surprising, but not exclusively.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
No, not at all. It’s all faiths, all people of faith are to be protected. You know, the saying is nobody should get in between a patient and their doctor. Well, nobody should get in between a person and God, especially the federal government. So that’s the faith office primary role. But then obviously you have the National Faith Advisory Board, which is an organization that is meant to help shape policy and to advance policy efforts that are going to be beneficial to people of faith. And so the two work hand in hand
together.

One is in the White House, obviously, one, you know, both. And it’s been a wild journey to, you know, go from pastoring a church, staying open during the lockdowns, to getting to go to the White House to have dinner with the President of the United States. I mean, it’s been a journey that I never saw coming, but I am so glad I’m on it.

Mr. Jekielek:
What would be an example of something that the faith advisory board has accomplished thus far?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
It played a major factor in getting President Trump elected. The National Faith Advisory Board did. It was out of the National Faith Advisory Board that the idea was born of the White House Faith Office. So that was probably the greatest accomplishment of the National Faith Advisory Board is the birth of the faith office, a standalone faith office in the West Wing of the White House with a report to the President of the United States. And so I would say that’s probably its greatest accomplishment.

Mr. Jekielek:
Can you clarify this for me? So this, the Faith Advisory Board existed prior to this election? Can you explain?

Pastor Lahmeyer:
The Faith Advisory Board existed during the first administration. It served as a council of faith leaders to pray for the president, to advise the president on issues that mattered to pastors and people of faith.
And so fast forward to the 2024 campaign. It was the National Faith Advisory Board that put forth the idea to President Trump about establishing an official White House faith office to go beyond just an outside council that is the National Faith Advisory Board so it’s two separate things but they flow very well together.

Mr. Jekielek:
I see and your job has really been to bring pastors here as I know.

Pastor Lahmeyer:
Yes, I’ve been somebody that has taken that role of saying I think this pastor should go up to the White House, this pastor should have involvement. You know, it’s been a really, really good journey of seeing how all this comes together from political to policy to people. And that’s the thing, you know, getting back to should pastors be involved in policy? Should pastors be going up to the White House?

The answer is yes, and that’s because people matter. And if we believe that people matter then we have to realize something policy impacts people for better or for worse but policy is determined and it’s fought out in the political arena so politics determines policy but policy impacts people and so yeah
pastors need to be coming up and talking about different policies that will benefit people in their communities. And that is part of the role of the faith office.