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[RUSH TRANSCRIPT BELOW] A significant industry has emerged of expectant mothers flying from China to states such as California or U.S. territories such as Saipan to give birth to American citizens, says investigative reporter Peter Schweizer.

As soon as the newborn is old enough to fly, mother and child travel back to China with their babies. Chinese state-run media began promoting such services years ago, Schweizer says.

“They are exploiting this on a massive scale,” Schweizer said. “It’s industrial, and we are completely oblivious to it.”

He estimates there are tens of thousands of such cases per year. When the child turns 21, their parents can then potentially claim green cards through them.

There are also growing anecdotes of surrogacy as another preferred route.

“Politically connected elites in China … are hiring women in the United States to carry their children. They call them carriers. And these women are American citizens,” Schweizer says.

Schweizer is the author of multiple New York Times bestsellers, including most recently “The Invisible Coup: How American Elites and Foreign Powers Use Immigration as a Weapon.”

In this episode, he breaks down some of the incredible findings of his book.

Over the course of history, “migration has oftentimes been used as a weapon: a weapon of subversion, a weapon to overwhelm an enemy, a weapon to divide an enemy, a weapon to sow chaos,” he says.

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of  NTD.

RUSH TRANSCRIPT
Jan Jekielek:

Peter Schweizer, it’s so good to have you back on American Thought Leaders.

It’s always great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

So congratulations on, at the very least, being at the top of Amazon with your new book. That’s kind of an unbelievable achievement in itself. I read it through and I discovered so many things that I didn’t actually know about. For example, that there’s a template of weaponized migration, of weaponizing migration in 1980, right? The Mariel boatlift in Cuba. Why don’t we just start with that, and then we’re going to jump into all things China because you know that’s what I’m always most interested in. But there’s actually a template for weaponized migration. I didn’t know. What is it?

Yes, it’s interesting. We’ve been having this national conversation about immigration as it relates to things like jobs and crime on our streets. But this issue of weaponized immigration is new in a lot of respects for a lot of people. But we’ve actually experienced it. There was a government study that was done probably 20 years ago or so that looked at what were the most successful attacks on the United States.

Number one, of course, was 9/11. Number two was Pearl Harbor. Number three was the Mariel boatlift. The Mariel boatlift was weaponized immigration. And what happened was that there was a growing cry in Cuba for people who wanted to leave Cuba to come to the United States. So Fidel Castro said, we’re going to turn this into a weapon.

What they did was seat among people who just wanted freedom in the United States were people from insane asylums that were released with this group, criminals, intelligence officers. So there were 125,000 Cubans that came, but it caused a huge problem with the growth in drug networks, crime on our streets, intelligence, and subversion by the Cuban government.

There’s a sort of a famous story that I describe in the book based on high-ranking Cuban defectors, where Jimmy Carter, the American president at the time, as this exodus was starting, said, we’re going to welcome these people with open arms. Fidel Castro responded by saying, we’re going to fill their arms with excrement. He used a stronger word than that. This was weaponized immigration.

What’s interesting about this government study that looked at 9/11, Pearl Harbor, and the Mariel boatlift as the most successful attacks is that the study said the Mariel boatlift might have been the best of the attacks by our adversaries because of what happened with 9/11? Well, we essentially dismantled Al-Qaeda. We killed them. Pearl Harbor, we defeated the Japanese empire. But with a Mariel boatlift, when you weaponize immigration, who do you attack? Who do you bomb? Who do you go after on the battlefield?

And it creates this weird mixture because, you know, you have a whole bunch of people who are dissidents from communism, who deserve support, who are going to be amazing Americans. These are some of the… It’s kind of shocking how many of the immigrants are so unbelievably pro-American, right? Because we see the other side of that too. But now you have kind of this mix, so it makes it hard, right? It makes it hard to kind of figure out who’s who. And it’s easy to attack also, hey, why are you against immigrants? It’s like, well, I’m not against immigrants. I’m just against those people.

Yes. And the weaponization of immigration. I think what we have to understand is that immigration 50, 100 years ago was overwhelmingly people making individual decisions. I want a better life. And they would come here, and the expectation that they had and that fellow Americans had was they were going to assimilate. They wanted to become part of the American dream. It doesn’t mean you forget the homeland, but you embrace those core American values.

What happens with weaponized immigration is it’s changed. You have these foreign actors that are manipulating our immigration laws to their benefit. And there’s this real pressure that’s brought by the Mexican government, by the Chinese government, that once migrants are here, they are attacked and ridiculed because they want to assimilate.

I quote in the book a senior-ranking Mexican official with the Morena Party saying that Mexicans that come to the United States and embrace American values are traitors. They’re traitors to Mexico. And he says that President Scheinbaum agrees with him. So it’s a very, very different dynamic. These foreign actors are manipulating immigration in a way that’s tragic for our country. It’s tragic for a lot of the migrants, and it’s beneficial to our enemies.

Just even the concept that assimilation was something that we had to focus on and make happen. I’m Canadian. We escaped communist Poland. My parents did not want to live in a communist society. That was the reason we ended up there. And so it was just obvious that we wanted to leave that part behind, but we wanted to learn Polish. I learned it. I’m a native speaker. So exactly what you’re talking about.

But it never occurred to me until I did a few interviews back in 2019 and 2020. The bad things of the culture can be important. And if there isn’t an obvious expectation of assimilation, you’re going to be importing that thing, right? And it’s kind of obvious when you say it, but it wasn’t obvious to me and probably still isn’t obvious to a lot of people.

And you think when you’re coming from, let’s say a country that’s been torn by war, that has oppression, that has, let’s say, some real cultural challenges, you’re bringing that with you when you come to the United States. And people don’t choose where they’re born. We understand that. But the notion that if you come here from a culture that, let’s say, has all sorts of issues in terms of the way they treat women, the way that they value or don’t value private property and privacy and individual rights, that’s going to have huge repercussions.

And the problem is compounded by the fact that not only do you have these foreign actors that are fighting against assimilation, but you also have domestic actors. One of the things I do in the book is quote a lot of progressive activists who talk about the fact that they favor mass immigration. Why? Because they see it as having a transformative effect on American society.

It’s the way to kind of remake society in the vision that they want, not where America is today or not where even the American people want to go. This is where I want to go as an activist. And I see these migrants as a tool for my political weaponization. And they’re quite explicit about it. I mean, that’s the thing that’s shocking.

So I think we need to wake up to that fact. The migration we’re dealing with today is weaponized. It’s very different from 50 and 100 years ago. It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have immigration. My parents immigrated from Europe. I think it’s a wonderful, beautiful thing, but we have to understand what’s going on and deal with this weaponization first. And then we can have the broader conversation about the level of legal immigration that we want.

And it’s just the thing that really struck me reading your book, right, is that there are so many different players for whom this is a kind of success. So you have people that are, well, okay, there are people that are looking to increase a voting block, for example. They believe that that’s going to work for them. That seems to be one of the efforts. Another one is just people who want to destabilize. This is going back to the Mariel boatlift. You think about this Cloward-Piven strategy type approach where you want to blow out the economy so you can transform it into a more socialist economy. That’s nuts, but there are people working on that too, apparently.

And then there are people, for example, the whole Mexican example is fascinating, right, this idea that there’s this manifest destiny. We need to reconquer the South. Even if there’s a border we can have it, right? I mean, that’s the kind of stuff you describe in there. It’s kind of—so there are all these different actors, and it almost seems like there were a lot fewer, up until recently, that were like, hey, wait a sec.

Yes, you’re right. And what’s funny about it is—not funny, I mean, it’s helpful in a way—but all the things that, when you look at the motivations of these foreign actors, they’re open about it. So, you know, when it comes to Mexico, this notion that Mexico views mass migration as a way of extending their sovereignty into the United States to reclaim portions of the American Southwest that they lost in the 19th century, they’re actually openly saying it. I mean, these are senior government officials from various political parties that say this. Whether they actually mean that California will become a Mexican state is really not the point.

The point is they believe that they are reaching critical mass in states, and they’re going to be able to exert a level of sovereignty in those states. And they’re already kind of doing it. You have this bizarre situation where, in the Mexican Senate and in the Mexican Chamber of Deputies, which is their Congress, you have representatives that live in the United States, and their job is to represent Mexican-Americans that live in the United States before the Mexican government. That’s a massive intrusion in our sovereignty.

So, you have a Mexican senator who lives in Arizona, representing Mexican-Americans in Arizona, who is in the Mexican Senate introducing legislation, voting on bills, and advising the government on how to help Mexican-Americans in the country. And they talk about the fact that the Mexican diaspora in the United States is a, quote, unquote, strategic resource that can be used for the benefit of the Mexican government.

I mean, to me, it’s shocking. Well, and then just all these—an order of magnitude more consulates than even the Chinese have. The Chinese Communist Party [CCP] has these police stations that act like these little outposts, but here you have 50-plus overt, actual consulates. That’s well beyond any other country.

Yes, if I remember correctly, China and the UK have six or seven consulates in the United States. Mexico has 53. One of the things you discover is that these consulates, in addition to doing their sort of regular consular behavior, there’s also a lot of evidence they’re getting involved in American domestic politics, meaning supporting certain candidates and certain political parties.

There was a meeting in May of 2024. We got a copy of the transcript of the meeting at the Mexican consulate in Oklahoma City, of all places. And they brought together consular officials from around the country. There were Democratic Party activists there. And the discussion was about how, with the upcoming presidential election, they were going to turn parts of the country from red to blue. And they talked about how they had done it in California, they’d done it in Arizona, and now how we are going to do it in the rest of the country? That is not the kind of conversation foreign diplomats are supposed to be having in the United States.

At the same time, they’re championing and supporting these violent protests, the ones we had in Los Angeles in 2025, the ones that we’re having in Minneapolis in January of 2026. Consular officials are encouraging this behavior. One of the Mexican officials living in the United States said that he was organizing the militancy and going around the country meeting with activist groups to try to ramp things up. So again, this is not stuff that foreign diplomats are supposed to be doing.

Well, no, but I mean, compared to the Chinese Communist Party, it actually is. So this is why, you know, this all kind of takes me for a spin here. I mean, this can actually be negotiated potentially. Negotiation is possible here.

And the other, on the Chinese Communist Party, that’s a bit of a different discussion.

Yes, it is. You’re right about that. I mean, Mexico, we do not view as an adversarial power the way that we rightfully view China as an enemy. And I think our tendency is, and this benefits Mexico in what they’re doing, our tendency is to view the Mexican government as corrupt, maybe a little hapless. And I don’t think that’s really an accurate rendering. I mean, they actually do talk and they are engaged in activities in our country that I would argue are quite sophisticated and quite brazen.

Sounds strategic is the term I was thinking.

Yes, and again, it’s something that it’s not just sort of one crazy politician popping off. There are literally dozens of quotations in the book, and they’re very explicit. And they see states like Arizona and California as examples of success.

So we need to be aware when we’re dealing with issues of mass migration and the Mexican border, we need to understand the way they view it. They do not view mass migration as a bad thing. They are not saddened by the fact that tens of millions of Mexicans have moved to the United States.

They view it as a positive thing, not only because of the billions of dollars they get in remittances, but also because of this strategic sense that they have that California, Nevada, these states, the American Southwest, it’s their land. They view it as their land, and this is an opportunity to reoccupy it and to use it in a manner that benefits what they call greater Mexico.

So now during what’s been dubbed the surge, right, in the previous administration, all these people coming through, there was a large, sizable number of Chinese nationals. There were military-aged males that were described. You don’t focus on that aspect of the weaponized migration from the CCP’s side, from the Chinese Communist Party’s side. But how serious of an issue is that? Was there a fifth column pushed into America through that? How do you view that?

Yes, I think so. And I mean, you’ve done some reporting on this, as other people have. And I think it’s true when you realize that a lot of the criminal networks that operate in the United States, Chinese organized crime, these individuals would come and connect up with them. We know in the state of Maine, for example, you’ve covered this with all the illegal marijuana grows. When they go and find out who’s running these operations, they’re people that are illegally in the country, some of whom came through the border in Mexico.

So are there individuals there that are escaping communism and want to be part of the American system? Yes, there are. The problem is, as with the example of the Mariel boatlift, you don’t really know who is who. And a lot of these individuals are coming into the United States. They’re connected with the CCP. They’re connected with Chinese organized crime. And this is, in part, an effort of infiltration. And the fact that you have some people fleeing communism coming across that border is perfect cover. Exactly the same methodology that Fidel Castro used in the Mariel boatlift.

I’m still blown away that I just simply, well, it’s not just me. I mean, I’m Canadian. Maybe I can be forgiven a little bit for not being aware. But I mean, to me, it was revelatory that all this could be weaponized when I started having guests who were saying, look, Jan, this is not normal. This is not organic. And of course, after a while, it becomes obvious. But it’s not like we didn’t know that this method exists and has been done and apparently done wildly effectively before. This is confusing, right?

Yes. It’s been done well before. And if you look further in history, which I’m not as familiar with, but you look further in history on migration, migration has oftentimes been used as a weapon, a weapon of subversion, a weapon to overwhelm an enemy, a weapon to divide an enemy, a weapon to sow chaos. You know, I quote in the book, an immigration judge in the United States who says, look, the exception to the rule is sort of free immigration, where people just sort of organically, that by and large, this is a lot of times enacted by states.

And so, in the case of the surge from Mexico during the Biden administration, you had two explicit things that happened because we went from a trickle to a flood almost overnight. The first thing is, as I recount in the book, after Joe Biden won in November 2020, AMLO [Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador], the president of Mexico, called together Mexican legislators, and they enacted legislation that they knew was going to radically encourage mass migration to the United States. So they knew that that was the effect because that’s what they wanted to happen.

You had governments in Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega, and you think, well, what could they do? Fly to Nicaragua? We will give them a visa, and we will take them to the border so they can head north and go into the United States. And you literally had millions of people coming from Africa, from Latin America, and from Asia, who flew to Nicaragua on these chartered planes and then would head north.

So this was all intentional and directed. And this is so, I mean, the really important thing is this mix, this mix of people, some of whom genuinely need help, some of whom are just economic opportunists, some of whom are actual bad actors, and some of them are criminals and insane people that are being pushed to destabilize. Yes, and you have to kind of, it’s obviously very difficult to sort out, especially when there’s this kind of mass surge happening.

Exactly right. That’s the dilemma when you have a country like the United States that immigrants helped to build. They were a vital component to it, helped build it, so important to our history. We are a compassionate people in a lot of respects, but now that compassion is being turned against us, and it’s being used to manipulate us.

And the cost is real, especially when you have domestic people in the United States, some of these NGOs, who are telling migrants that come here from whatever intention not to assimilate. And in fact, they pressure them and ridicule them if they do talk about assimilating. It creates a lot of tension and conflict in the United States that we don’t need. And it is destabilizing, which is the intention of what is happening.

So the challenge for America is how do we maintain this important part of our history of allowing immigration, but vetting who is coming into the country. And that’s not an easy thing to solve, but it begins with awareness. Let’s begin with awareness of the fact that it is being weaponized. This is going on, and we have got to address it before it’s too late.

Well, you do have a chapter at the end of the book that tries to do that. And as I was looking through that, some of it is around shifting the incentive structures of people coming here. So a big part of what you talk about when it comes to the CCP’s weaponization of migration is this birth tourism. Fascinating, shocking, and deeply disturbing examples. But here’s the rub, right? You suggest, I think, that there could be a million American citizens, half-a-million to a million American citizens who have their allegiance to the Chinese Communist Party. And how do you get that number? I mean, that’s a really large number of people.

I agree. It’s a really large number of people. And I agree it’s a really large number of people and I was shocked by it. Yes, the birthright citizenship issue to me is really central because it is a massive vulnerability and it’s something that can be fixed. We’ll see what the Supreme Court is going to settle on this. But the important thing I think for people to understand is that the Chinese government, the CCP, is using birth tourism on an industrial scale. They are exploiting it on an industrial scale.

So what do I mean? Well, any numbers that we have are related to how many Chinese nationals are flying to the United States, giving birth here, and then flying home with a baby, raising them in communist China, and then when they turn 18, they’re going to be citizens, they can vote and do everything. Our federal government has no idea. We don’t track this information because you’re given a birth certificate when your child is born here. Whether you’re an American citizen or whether you’re a Chinese birth tourist, you get a birth certificate. It does not list the nationality of the parents. Nobody tracks this.

So our federal government says we have no idea. The number of half-a-million to a million, maybe more, comes actually from China. The Chinese government has looked at this and estimates, the Chinese government and some research firms say that over the past roughly 13 years, you have anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 Chinese nationals a year doing this for 13 years, which is stunning. And there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence to support this in addition to the data from China, reports of these flights from Los Angeles, LAX [Los Angeles International Airport] to Shanghai, where the entire business section is largely populated by newborn babies.

So it’s a huge problem. And I think we have to dispel the idea that birth tourism or birthright citizenship, I should say, is just something, you know, somebody comes across the border, they make a life here, they’re here for 20 years, they have a couple of kids. That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about something very systematic, and we’re talking about something.

China did it in Hong Kong for a while. It reached the point around 2010 that half of all newborns in Hong Kong were Chinese nationals getting birthright citizenship in Hong Kong. The government had to stop it. The government in Hong Kong at that point had to stop it because they said, this is subversion. We can’t allow this to go on. Something similar is playing out in the United States.

And you’re saying that these other research firms are kind of confirming the Chinese numbers because both you and I know that we can’t put a lot of stock in the Chinese numbers.

Yes, exactly. And what’s interesting about that, you’re right. You think, okay, the Chinese government is saying this. If anything, I would believe the Chinese government would want to understate the numbers. So the fact that the Chinese government is saying 50,000 a year, the fact that these research firms are saying 100,000 a year, one research firm said that in just a single year, I think it was 2018, they said there were 150,000.

Now, I don’t know if those are completely accurate, but those are the only numbers we have. And again, all of these sources would have reasons to sort of underestimate these numbers. And it would be fitting with China’s methodology, which is very smart and very sophisticated at exploiting the weaknesses of countries that it regards as enemies. And certainly, the United States would fit in that category.

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CCP Exploiting Birth Tourism in America on an ‘Industrial’ Scale | Peter Schweizer