Name: It’s Time to Ban Transplant Tourism to China | Rep. Neal Dunn
Uploaded: 2025-12-03T14:39:22.000Z
Description: “We don’t want Americans to participate in any way, shape, or form in this kind of organ harvesting and transplantation scheme. … You can actually sit in America, [and] make an appointment for a heart, lung transplant in China right now,” says Congressman Neal Dunn (R-Fla.), a former Army surgeon who is also founding president of the Advanced Urology Institute in Florida.

Jan Jekielek is a senior editor with The Epoch Times, host of the show “American Thought Leaders” and co-host of “FALLOUT” with Dr. Robert Malone and “Kash’s Corner” with Kash Patel. Jan’s career has spanned academia, international human rights work, and now for almost two decades, media. He has interviewed nearly a thousand thought leaders on camera, and specializes in long-form discussions challenging the grand narratives of our time. He’s also an award-winning documentary filmmaker, producing “The Unseen Crisis: Vaccine Stories You Were Never Told,” “DeSantis: Florida vs. Lockdowns,” and “Finding Manny.”

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[RUSH TRANSCRIPT BELOW] “We don’t want Americans to participate in any way, shape, or form in this kind of organ harvesting and transplantation scheme. … You can actually sit in America, [and] make an appointment for a heart, lung transplant in China right now,” says Congressman Neal Dunn (R-Fla.), a former Army surgeon who is also founding president of the Advanced Urology Institute in Florida.

As a starting point, Dunn has introduced the Block Organ Transplant Purchases from China Act, also known as the BLOCK Act, which would prohibit federal reimbursement for organ transplants and related medical services if the organ source cannot be verified, as is the case in communist China.

In our wide-ranging interview, we cover China’s illicit organ trade, the biowarfare program, and President Donald Trump’s new trade deal with leader Xi Jinping, as well as how America can accelerate rare earth mineral production, and the strategic significance of Pacific island nations like the Solomon Islands.

As a member of the House Select Committee on the Strategic Competition Between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party—often referred to as the House CCP Select Committee—Dunn receives intelligence briefings on the multifaceted threats that Beijing poses to American national security.

The CCP “is gathering biological data on all of us,” he says. “One of the most insidious ways they gather biological DNA sequencing on us is they run a set of blood banks in the United States.”

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of NTD.

RUSH TRANSCRIPT
Jan Jekielek:

Congressman Neal Dunn, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Thank you so much for having me on.

So President Trump has come back from Asia with the trade deal. There’s a reprieve on the export controls for rare earths for a year. There are soybeans that are going to be sold. What’s your take on what happened with this trade deal?

He survives, he thrives on making deals, and so he’s made another deal. I think this is a good one. I mean, we actually, we’re always competing with China, and they’re often abusing the trade laws. But the rare earths are something that we’ve found are absolutely critical. And the free world really isn’t ready to source its own rare earths yet. Now, we only got a one-year reprieve, so we need to get out there and hustle in terms of making it. And I think there’s some good news there for us.

What’s the good news? I mean, it seems like the CCP [Chinese Communist Party] is exerting significant leverage here.

They are. They actually have significant leverage. The fact that they would enter into a one-year deal kind of says that, number one, they probably won’t go after Taiwan for a year. That’s good news. But two, back home, it gives us time to ramp up and go after our own rare earths. Now, I know what you’re thinking. It takes 30 years to permit a mine.

Yes, but we actually have discovered a way to get about half of all the rare earths and critical minerals out of the tailings of mines that have already been mined. So you can go to the phosphate mines in Florida, and you can pulverize those tailings and then apply very high magnetic fields and separate out things like germanium and a number of other elements—like 30 of the elements—you can just kind of drag them out of the tailings.

You know, it strikes me like we need an actual Operation Warp Speed.

Good point. In fact, I’m going to suggest it. I may give you credit.

Well, this is a defining issue. And from what I understand, we actually sold our companies, American companies, that were doing all this kind of stuff, building these rare earth magnets and so forth, to the CCP.

Absolutely true. We invented this stuff, and then we outsourced its supplies for all of it and the refining of it.

There are other elements to this deal. We’ve also got soybeans being sold. How serious do you think the Chinese Communist Party will be in terms of actually fulfilling what they said they were going to do?

Congressman Dunn:

Uncharacteristically, for these deals with China, they’ve actually put a hard number on what they’re going to do. The hard numbers were 12 million metric tons of soybeans before the end of the year, and 25 million tons a year for three years. That’s a pretty straightforward number. You can be certain that for those three years, Trump will be reminding them of what their promises were.

Well, the other piece is a lot softer, which is about fentanyl, trying to affect some sort of limits on the fentanyl. But this is a promise, I think, that was made under Obama, if I recall.

Yes, and honestly, we saw a sort of a dip in the fentanyl, but it was just a dip. And now it’s back with a vengeance. The fentanyl, of course, includes all of the analogs of fentanyl, which are often far worse than fentanyl itself. It’s hard to imagine drugs that have more affinity for the opioid receptor than fentanyl has. But the analogs can be a thousand times stronger.

So what’s going on with that? How do you view fentanyl from the vantage point of being a member of the Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party?

We absolutely need to do something about fentanyl. Frankly, I’m glad that Trump has jumped in with both feet to stop this strike. It’s killing 100,000 Americans a year. That’s an ungodly number. That’s more than the entire Vietnam War every year. The other thing is, not all of these people are actually sort of the deadhead, dead-end junkies. You could have some kid buy a little marijuana, and it’s laced with fentanyl, and he dies.

Well, a number of analysts I’ve had on this show who know what they’re talking about tell me that the CCP could cut this fentanyl flow off relatively quickly.

No question they could do it because they don’t allow it in their country. They know how to stop it. They know where it comes from. And that’s very much of a command and control economy they’ve got there. So this is the truth about the CCP. They use this as a money laundering operation. Send the cartels the precursors. The cartels pay them back in dollars.

Well, I mean, in addition to wiping out tens of thousands of military-aged males off the map every year.

I’m a doctor, by the way, in real life, and we used to see these things. And I actually use fentanyl only on terminal patients, frankly, so hospice-type style. And it is an incredibly powerful drug. One little 25 microgram, not milligram, microgram patch is usually very, very potent pain relief.

Do you think the CCP is actually going to, after making this promise a number of times, actually enact it?

The CCP does what they think they have to do to get along in the world, and they don’t really care about getting along too much. But Trump can be pretty persuasive and demanding, and I think that’s what you need. You need somebody who’s going to harangue them. So yes, we’ve got this agreement. You’re not living up to the agreement. I need more. I need to see more.

And of course, Trump at the other end, he’s punishing the cartels in ways that we never did before, which I cheer on. I think we should all be cheering that on. So he’s making it a pretty expensive operation for them.

So as we were talking about doing this interview, you said something to me about the purpose of this select committee, which I thought was fascinating and incredibly important. So explain to me, what is this Select Committee on the CCP actually about?

So when we designed and named the Select Committee, the actual name says it all. It is called the Select Committee on Competition with the Chinese Communist Party. And the point of all that was, number one, the Chinese people are our enemy. It’s the Chinese Communist Party that’s our enemy. And number two, it’s about competition, not war.

Now, we all know that war hangs in the balance, and we spend a lot of time wargaming this thing. But the truth is, we don’t want war. Nobody should want war. Because a war with China looks pretty bad, and we’ve done the numbers on that. It’s pretty grim. So we’d like to keep this in the realm of competition. Now, it’s going to be tough competition. But at the same time, it’s better to compete than it is to make war.

Well, it’s competition in the context of China undergoing the largest military buildup, perhaps in the history of the world.

In history, yes. It’s something. By the way, I think we came very close. The given wisdom in Washington was, right after Russia gets control of Ukraine, and we thought that was going to be three or four days after they invaded, then China was going to come into Taiwan. And they were massing troops on the coast and ships on the coast for transport. They looked like they were getting ready for an invasion.

Of course, the Russian invasion of Ukraine went sideways. The Ukrainians did a brilliant job protecting themselves. And God bless them. They basically saved Taiwan at the same time they were saving Ukraine.

And just explain this a little bit more to me. Why do you think that’s the case?

Because China was watching Russia, and they were going, oh, these invasions aren’t as easy as they look. Because everybody thought Russia was just going to go through Ukraine like hot water through sugar. But that was wrong. The Ukrainians really put up a great fight. And of course, Taiwan called on their military, and their people have begun to really take their defensive mechanisms seriously.

With the Select Committee on the CCP, I mean, I’ve been watching you guys closely for a number of years. I mean, you cover everything from this forced organ harvesting in China, which is something I’ve covered extensively. Thank you for doing that.

Yes, that’s a subject that’s near and dear to my heart. I’m one of the few members of Congress who’ve ever actually done transplant surgery, and so I understand a lot of it is coming near and dear to my heart. And the idea of actually murdering someone to take their organs and give them to somebody else, that is as appalling as anything that anybody’s ever done in the history of the world. That is right up there with the Nazis and the Holocaust. There is nothing any worse than this.

Clearly, they put no value whatsoever on these human lives. So if you’re a member of the Chinese Communist Party, you’re going to do okay. If you’re a member of the Falun Gong, good luck. You’re just a walking set of kidneys, heart, and lungs that they’re going to harvest at some point.

So absolutely, we have to talk more about this because, I mean, again, there aren’t a ton of people who are competent to talk about it and interested in talking about it. The combination is very rare. So we’re going to dig into that. But you also look at, I mean, of course, you look at this whole trade thing. We started out by talking about the trade side, which, of course, is a huge area of competition or unrestricted warfare. And then also, you know, there’s kind of the strategic America’s strategic interests in the Pacific, some of these island chains and CCP subversion, you went to the Solomon Islands. I’d love to talk about that with you a little bit, because unfortunately, we lost, frankly, a heroic leader in the region recently.

Let’s start with the organ issue. And because this is something that’s very close to me, I’m actually working on a book as we speak. Every day I’m looking at it. Explain to me what you’ve managed to do. And you have a bill that you originated called the Block Act. I mean, the short name is the Block Act. So just explain to me the picture of what this is, this forced organ harvesting in China, and then what this Block Act will do.

We mentioned the practice, which is repugnant beyond belief. But the idea is we don’t want Americans to participate in any way, shape, or form in this kind of organ harvesting and transplantation scheme. Now, they advertise that. And you can actually make an appointment, sit in America, make an appointment for a heart-lung transplant in China right now. But I want to make that illegal. And I mean literally go to prison and pay fines, so criminal and civil penalties on this. And I think it’s a very popular idea to do that.

Having said that, it’s very tough to talk about organ harvesting with anybody, even in Congress. And the reason for it is it’s such an appallingly bad idea. People are shriveled away from it. When you say, let’s talk about organ harvesting, they just look down at the floor, gag, and walk away. It’s just so bad. And it sort of says something that this is happening.

So this act actually does block any organs from Americans from receiving them. They also lose their right to medical care in the United States afterwards. So you come back for a little post-op follow-up in America? No.

And then the other thing that it does is we can’t bring organs over here. And that’s a more subtle problem than we think because it’s possible to actually preserve some organs that are harvested at the time of death; bone grafts, placentals, corneas, these things. I don’t want that stuff coming into our transplant market either. So there’s some, you know, this is just like smuggling fentanyl, they’re smuggling organs. Organ legging or something, is that what they call it?

You know, I’m actually going to research that a little bit more because most of the work that I’ve done is looking at transplants that are actually happening there, including things like corneal and so forth.

Yes, that’s what people tend to think of, but you know, you can also ship those things.

There’s that subsection, absolutely. And there’s also, you know, there’s new technologies now. Like, for example, when ECMO [extracorporeal membrane oxygenation] came online some years back, right, where you can sort of replace the heart and lungs for a time. Well, I mean, it changed the dimension of the transplants because now from one body, you could actually harvest multiple organs. You had more time before the body would get cold because you had this circulation. But these machines, they actually tend to be manufactured here, actually, and in the West. And there’s all sorts of transplant materials and technologies I’ve been learning, shockingly, that are actually being imported to there, right?

It’s amazing that they do that. Think about that. They’re literally keeping these bodies alive just so they can kill them and take their order. That’s so un-American. I mean, it’s free nations. We are obviously repelled by this.

My contention basically is that this whole industry as a whole is a good way, it’s kind of a lens to understand how the Chinese Communist Party actually operates.

I think you’re absolutely right. This tells you just exactly how much value they put on human life.

Congressman, you’re leaving me speechless here because there’s few people. I’m so used to this. We have this subject come up. People, they go speechless. And they, by the way, don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to work with me on bills. You know, they’re like, ugh. It’s just, it’s so bad.

Just the thought of it is sick. And this is exactly what I experienced, you know, 20 years ago when I started working on it. I experienced it  myself. And even today I experience it. But something I noticed, I feel like in the last three years, something has shifted. There was this survivor of the organ harvesting, which came forth. There was a lot of more media than normal around it. There’s actually these two bills that have already passed the House, the Falun Gong Protection Act, and the Stop Forced Organ Harvesting Act. I mean, everything you’re saying is absolutely true, but there seems to be an increased interest or awareness or people overcoming that revulsion.

I think you’re right. That’s what it is. They’re overcoming revulsion, but it takes a willful effort to do it.

Absolutely. Let’s talk about your visit to the Salmon Islands. And also, for starters, it’s not obvious to people at the outset why we should care about these small island chains in the Pacific in the first place. But you do.

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